Last week, we posted the first part of Pastor Dave Bruskas's interview with Albuquerque 104.1 FM The Edge DJs Aaron "Buck" Burnett and Dex on biblical manhood and what it's like to be a Christian man. Today, we've got the second part of that interview, where the men bring the focus squarely on one topic: the Christian men–including pastors–sex, and sexual sin. (And for the record, we can't find any part of this that wouldn't be applicable to Christian ladies as well.)

Pastor Dave on 104.1 FM The Edge, Part 2 [audio:http://blog.marshill.com/files/2011/01/bruskasedge2.mp3]

"Sex just isn't about genitalia, and it's not about being physical. It's really about the heart."

The Edge: Something that I've struggled with, over the past many years is sexual sin. … One of the lies I listened to was, "You're always gonna be alone." And I know that's not true because the Holy Spirit does dwell inside of you. But you listen to those lies and you believe it. … How do you address that with people, like myself, who struggle with stuff like that? Because I know every man struggles with lust, with sexual sin, with porn. How do you counsel somebody on that? Pastor Dave: Yeah, no that seems to be the universal struggle. It's certainly my history. I grew up in the neighborhood, youngest kid on the block, again old school days, where the internet wasn't prevalent, wasn't even invented yet, I guess. We had a clubhouse at the end of the block, stacked high with what would probably be considered soft core porn today. And the guys would go in there and we'd just spend the day, like trading baseball cards, like, "Check out this one," "Look at the stats on this one." To this day, those images are still etched in my mind, that I can recall them—whether I want to or not—at any time in vivid detail, which is funny because I can't even remember my own phone number. …

You can't fight sin with religion. You need Jesus.

And it's really interesting, that what Jesus did when he was on the earth and he was teaching, was he was speaking to a religious culture that had a very technical culture of what sexual sin was. And they had created some categories that basically were loopholes so that they could be sexually immoral. And [Jesus] took it right to the mind and said, "I tell you, if anyone looks upon a woman with lustful intent" or lustfully, "he's already committed adultery." And so, what I help guys try to understand is that sex just isn't about genitalia, and it's not about being physical. It's really about the heart. And if, in your battle against sexual sin, the passion that you have for Jesus doesn't become greater than the passion you have to have sex, then you'll always be fighting an uphill battle.

"This is a universal struggle, and it's OK to be open about it. It's OK not to be OK."

So usually what will happen is guys will come to me, Christian guys, broken down, saying, "Slept with somebody I shouldn't [have]," or "I downloaded porn on the internet and masturbated, and, you know, I feel guilty about that," and then they'll go, again, to religion: "So here's what I'm gonna do: I'm gonna read the Bible ten times a day, and I'm gonna go to every church service I can find in town. I'm gonna put an internet filter on, and I'm gonna not ever look at another woman the rest of my life." And, although those are helpful things, apart from Jesus, they really won't make a difference. So when they tell me that, I'm almost like, "Let's go set up the next appointment, because I'm gonna give you three days and then you're gonna be right back here crying." … Who hasn't been [that guy]? Really, honestly? And I tell guys that, you know what, this is a universal struggle, and it's OK to be open about it. It's OK not to be OK. It's not OK to stay there, but it's OK not to be OK.

King David is our horrendous example of sexual sin.

So, I think this is what the Bible teaches about that: And I think you can look at a horrendous example in Scripture, a guy named King David, who Scripture says was a man after God's own heart. God had given him everything his heart desired: he was leader of Israel at one of its most prosperous times. He had beautiful wives, by all accounts. And he goes out on the balcony one night, sees Bathsheba—most people know the story—bathing, takes her in, and sleeps with her, gets her pregnant, tries everything he can to cover up, including bringing her husband back from the front lines of war, trying to get him to sleep with her so it looks like he's the father of the baby, and when that doesn't work, he ultimately has her husband, Uriah, murdered in a battle of war in a very ugly scene.

"Sexual sin is really saying, 'You're not true, God. I can't trust you to be good.'"

When David finally comes to conviction over his sin through the prophet Nathan, he compiles Psalm 51. I tell every guy who's struggling with sexual sin to look at Psalm 51. When the Lord rebukes David for his sin, it's really interesting what he says. He says, "Why have you despised me? I would have given you anything." And I think that's a clear hint into the essence of sexual sin.

Sexual sin is a heart that doesn't trust God.

Sexual sin basically says, "I can't trust God to meet these needs. I can't trust God to provide these needs in the way that he chooses, therefore, I need to go outside of his provision" —whether that's through the internet and looking at women in ways you should never look at them, masturbation, sleeping around—it's really saying, "You're not true, God. I can't trust you to be good. I have these desires and urges in the moment, and I need to go take care of them because I can't trust you to." So I think that's really the heart of sexual sin. It's a heart that doesn't trust God. It's a heart that, instead of worshipping the God who is trustworthy, who knows our every need, and who's good to provide what we really need, we commit idolatry and say, "I need to worship sex instead of you, God."

"The good news is Jesus changes hearts."

And so if I can help a man begin to see that these issues are really heart issues, and then help him understand that the only way to change your heart is exactly … through the in-working of the Holy Spirit through the truth of the gospel, then we have somehwere to go.

Sin grows in the dark.

Most guys get behavioral modification or psychobabble in these areas, and it doesn't help 'em. And they just go over and over and over back to the same places. What's difficult about sexual sin is it has a unique shame factor to it. It's just a downward spiral. And what happens when you commit sexual sin is you typically withdraw from the things you need the most, whether that's first and foremost Jesus, and his people, and so, it's just a downward spiral, it's a really downward spiral. But it's an issue of the heart. And the good news is Jesus changes hearts. […] Sin grows in the dark. It really does. That these suicidal, self-destructive tendencies we have to rebel against God and not worship him, but worship things that he's made instead of him, have a habit, like fungus, of just growing in the dark. So just bringing them to light, and by that I mean sharing them with the people, transparently, who are committed to you is really important.

Pastors, you lead your church in repentance.

And I would say this, too, if there are pastors listening to this: Pastors, your job is [to] set the tone in this regard in the church. I meet so many people who go to a church where their pastor has never openly said he's done anything wrong. And that's kind of an old school concept that we have in church that, "He's our leader and therefore he's infallible." And the Bible just doesn't teach that. It does teach that we [pastors] have to live up to certain standards (1 Timothy 3, Titus 1), but we are to lead and be the lead repenter and be transparent. Your church is either a safe place to be clean or it's not. And I would put that burden upon whoever's leading it. You lead the way. And if you find that your people aren't coming to you regularly and they're not interacting with each other and really being transparent about where they're falling, then there's a real problem there that probably starts with you.

"We set the tone as pastors when we don't openly confess our sin and repent of it."

I think a lot of times we dismiss too quickly the criticisms that non-Christians have of Christians. I think we should really listen more. Because oftentimes, even though they tend to be generalistic and stereotypical, they're spot on. And I think if you went outside the studio today and talked to as many non-Christians as you could and said, "What do you think about Christians?" they would all probably throw out the word "hypocrite," and there's some truth in that. And I think that we set the tone as pastors when we don't openly confess our sin and repent of it.

Biblical manhood: to become progressively like Jesus through repentance and faith

The Apostle Paul, who was responsible for writing most of the New Testament, refers to himself as the chief of sinners. If you go to Romans 7, he dedicates almost an entire chapter to saying, "All the things I want to do, I don't do; and the things I don't want to do, I do." And he just paints a perfect picture of what it means to be a biblical man—a man who's not perfect, but one who's progressively becoming like Jesus through repentance and faith. Dave Bruskas is the campus pastor at Mars Hill Albuquerque. He writes the Parenting Daughters series here on the blog.